oldirish33
Member
"All Jaguars run on Guinness!"
Posts: 3,333
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Post by oldirish33 on Jun 7, 2023 19:04:49 GMT -5
I don't think they underestimated the 911 as much as it was a matter of resources, financial and otherwise. Porsche in 1966 was focused on the 906 and 907 for endurance racing. Porsche through the years has been very successful in giving support to privateers in their efforts in many racing venues and especially with the 911 variants. Teams like Brumos, Kremmer, Martini, Loos, etc. they could provide support and reap the rewards of the brand in the winners circle without having to directly fund a racing team.
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Post by jager on Jun 8, 2023 9:56:57 GMT -5
While I agree with some of your observations Jerry, the likes of Kremer, Martini, Loos etc came to prominence almost a decade later. Many/most of these teams also had German rootes and enjoyed factory support, whereas this Le Mans entry was very much a French entry that seems to have had no factory support.
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oldirish33
Member
"All Jaguars run on Guinness!"
Posts: 3,333
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Post by oldirish33 on Jun 8, 2023 11:03:27 GMT -5
While I agree with some of your observations Jerry, the likes of Kremer, Martini, Loos etc came to prominence almost a decade later. Many/most of these teams also had German rootes and enjoyed factory support, whereas this Le Mans entry was very much a French entry that seems to have had no factory support. As I said, I believe from what I have read, it was a matter of resources. The Porsche company racing focus was on the prototypes, although rallying also was very much on their radar, especially the Monte Carlo due to its high profile. They certainly couldn't be expected to support anyone that entertained a desire to go racing a 911 S, even at Le Mans. I offered up my example of privateer teams as the model for racing support I think had its roots in the mid to late 60's. Profiting from someone else's success, but not having the additional burden and expense of directly fielding a factory team. I would like to think the 911 S success in 1966 helped to provide a catalyst for that. Here are a couple pages you might find interesting which highlight their emphasis on rallying with the 911. presskit.porsche.de/anniversaries/en/70-years-porsche-sports-cars/topic/category/motorsporterfolge/items/en-the-1965-monte-carlo-rally-first-use-of-the-911-627.htmlpresskit.porsche.de/anniversaries/en/70-years-porsche-sports-cars/topic/category/motorsporterfolge/items/en-1968-monte-carlo-rally-first-victory-in-the-911-719.html |
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Post by jager on Jun 8, 2023 18:44:37 GMT -5
Thanks Jerry. I think we agree Porsche's focus was on the 906 & 907 prototypes. I just thought that it was a bot odd that it was Jacques Dewes who ran the first 911 at Le Mans. That said, Porsche had provided him with a 904/4 in 1964 and a 904/6 in 1965, so there was already a connection there and I guess at the time he was one of their preferred customers.
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Post by jager on Jun 8, 2023 18:46:58 GMT -5
Moving along, if this looks vaguely familiar, Andy showed it a few weeks ago. Given the quirky design it was always a certainty to be added to my collection, though given the lack of success I opted not to add the sister #44 car. Charles Deutsch was a French aerodynamics engineer and automobile maker, who together with Rene Bonnet founded the “DB” brand. After Bonnet took over the coachbuilding works Deutsch inherited from his father in 1938, the pair collaborated on the production of mostly Panhard powered, lightweight sportscars. The number of DB's built is not certain, but estimate range from 1,000 to up to 2,000 cars. The DB company was disbanded in 1961 when the two partners could not agree on the direction of the company. Deutsch wanted to stick with using Panhard engines, while Bonnet wanted to switch to Renault power. In the end, Deutsch left to establish his own firm which he named “CD” based on his initials and Renae Bonnet also went on to produce cars under his name. The first Panhard powered CD’s to appear at Le Mans was a three car entry in 1962. One of those cars won the Experimental, 701 - 850cc Class and finished 16th overall which put the new company on the map. Unfortunately, their sole entry in 1963 crashed out on the first lap. Charles Deutsch returned to Le Mans in 1964 with this new design featuring twin vertical fins to aid stability. Designated the CD 3, the lightweight fibreglass bodied special was powered by a 848cc Panhard Flat 2 engine that was supercharged which brought the motor up to a 1.2 litre equivalence. Two cars were entered, the #44 entry for André Guilhaudin & Alain Bertaut and the #45 entry for Pierre Lelong & Guy Verrier. All four drivers had been part of CD’s three car team in 1962. They qualified in 54th and 55th place respectively, taking the last two places on the grid. After their success in 1962, 1964 was largely a year to forget for CD. Not only did they qualify at the back of the field, their race pace wasn’t much better despite the supercharged engine and aerodynamic bodywork.  The #45 CD was never more than a handful of places off the back of the field in the first 12 hours of the race, until things came to an end after the halfway mark when the gearbox failed while they were running in 30th position. The #44 entry didn’t fair much better and spent much of the first nine hours running in last position before it too retired. The CD 3’s were not seen at Le Mans again, though the concept of the twin vertical fins was carried forward to the “SP66” of 1996. By this time, Charles Deutsch had switched from Panhard from Peugeot engines.   Car : 1964 #45 C.D. 3Team : S.E.C.A. CD Drivers : Guy Verrier (F)/ Pierre Lelong (F) Qualifying : 55th Result : 35th (DNF - Gearbox) Model : Spark (S5072) |
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Post by Alfaholic on Jun 8, 2023 22:29:18 GMT -5
This must be an escapee from an episode of the Thunderbirds 😄.
This is an absolute gem. I remember being totally taken in by one of these cars in amongst all the exotica when we first visited the Le Mans Museum many years ago.
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Post by DeadCanDanceR on Jun 8, 2023 23:48:38 GMT -5
Haha! It also reminded me of the Thunderbirds! Cool looking model! 5…4…3…2…1…Thunderbirds are go!  |
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Post by Tom on Jun 9, 2023 0:04:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I love that. Shame that they didn’t do better.
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Post by reeft1 on Jun 9, 2023 1:27:58 GMT -5
Another fan of the car and 100% agree with the Thunderbirds connection
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Post by jager on Jun 10, 2023 0:57:34 GMT -5
This must be an escapee from an episode of the Thunderbirds 😄. This is an absolute gem. I remember being totally taken in by one of these cars in amongst all the exotica when we first visited the Le Mans Museum many years ago. When you think about the rear vertical fins that have now become mandatory at Le Mans, these CD's were ahead of their time...just like the Thunderbirds. Haha! It also reminded me of the Thunderbirds! Cool looking model! 5…4…3…2…1…Thunderbirds are go! Showing your age Julio  . Yeah, I love that. Shame that they didn’t do better. It seems like they put so much effort into the design, the forgot about the mechanicals Tom. Another fan of the car and 100% agree with the Thunderbirds connection Glad you like it Paul.
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Post by jager on Jun 10, 2023 21:37:34 GMT -5
As Martin mentioned previously, we have found another local source who has some interesting models at good prices. This Looksmart Ferrari is one of my acquisitions from this new source. In 1963, Ferrari had developed the all new 250 P, a 3.0 litre V12 powered prototype that was smaller and lighter than the 4.0 litre V12 330 TRI/LM that had taken victory at Le Mans the previous year. Importantly, the new 250P was mid-engined, which represented a major turning point in philosophy for Ferrari, whoses previous race winners had all been front engined. Ferrari arrived at Le Mans with three of the new 250 Prototypes. In their usual fashion, they were supported by eight other prototype and GT’s entered by their quasi-works teams from NART (USA), Maranello Concessionaires (UK) and Equipe Nationale Belge/ Equipe Francorchamps (Belgium). Surprisingly the new 250 P’s were beaten to pole by an older 330TRI/LM entered by NART, which pushed the #21 Ferrari 250 P of Bandini and Scarfiotti down to 2nd, the #22 Ferrari of Parkes and Maglioli to 3rd and the #23 Ferrari of Surtees and Mairesse down to 5th place. From the start, the #23 Ferrari 250 P jumped both the #21 and #22 cars during the first hour. Over the next five hours, the Ferraris swapped positions regularly, with both the #22 and #23 Ferraris leading the race at different times. However, in the sixth hour, the race settled down into something of a pattern with the #23 Ferrari leading the #21 Ferrari for the next 13 hours. In the 19th hour of the race, Surtees pitted the #23 Ferrari from the lead. During the pitstop, fuel was spilt in the engine bay and when Mairesse arrived at the esses, the spilt fuel burst into flames ending their race.  This handed the lead to their teammates Scarfiotti and Bandini in the #21 Ferrari who went on to win by a significant 16 lap margin.   Car : 1963 #23 Ferrari 250 PTeam : SpA Ferrari SEFAC Drivers : John Surtees (GB)/ Willy Mairesse (B) Qualifying : 6th Result : 16th (DNF - Fire) Model : Looksmart (LSLM065) |
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Post by Tom on Jun 10, 2023 23:54:35 GMT -5
Great-looking car, shame it went up in flames. Superb model as is to be expected from Looksmart.
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Post by Alfaholic on Jun 11, 2023 4:24:20 GMT -5
I would be very jealous if I didn’t already have it. These Look Smart 250s are wonderful.
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Post by Scalainjridesagain on Jun 11, 2023 5:18:12 GMT -5
Lovely addition. Strikes me that there are no longer any trees in that part of the circuit. Just acres of gravel
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Post by JSB33 on Jun 11, 2023 7:19:19 GMT -5
A great looking and important car with a superb model of it.
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